Carolyn Cassidy is President of Creative Affairs for 20th Century Fox Television. It was recently announced that long-time executive Howard Kurtzman will be retiring in June and Cassidy will become sole President of 20th Century Fox Television.
In her current position, Cassidy is responsible for comedy and drama development, animation and current programming for the prolific studio.
She previously served as Executive Vice President, Current Series for 20th Century Fox Television and oversaw a team of executives responsible for managing the studio’s robust slate of live-action television series for platforms such as FBC, ABC, NBC, FX, Hulu, Disney+ and Netflix. In this role, she grew franchise hits such as “This Is Us,” “Empire,” “9-1-1” and “Modern Family.” She has worked with many of the studio’s highest-profile creators including Lee Daniels, Liz Meriwether, Dan Fogelman, Steve Levitan and Seth MacFarlane, as well as nurtured the next generation of hit-makers working on TCFTV shows.
Cassidy spoke with JHRTS member Charlie Chappell about the biggest challenges as President, how to achieve longevity as an executive, advice for up-and-comers, and a whole lot more.
An edited transcript of the conversation follows.
Can you tell us about your background and what made you want to work in entertainment?
My father worked in local television and we moved from market to market. The way you get promoted in that field is that you move to a larger market. I grew up the daughter of a station manager and so I was exposed to TV from an early age. And then coupled with the fact that I always loved movies, TV and storytelling and reading, that’s sort of what first sparked my interest in TV and working in the industry.
What sort of markets were you in?
I was born here and my dad worked in radio, and then we moved to Tucson, Lafayette (LA) and Buffalo. I went to high school in D.C. and then we moved to Dallas and that was the last stop before he retired.
How did you get involved with the HRTS?
I remember even as an assistant going to a lot of the lunches, the showrunner panel and the Network Presidents panel. And I think when my father was here in radio, I think he was involved with the HRTS on the radio side. So it was funny, when I would go to those events he would ask me about them because he remembered them too.
Do you have any memories of those early events?
I always thought it was really fascinating to hear all the network presidents talking about the schedule. That was the early 2000s so it was just a different time. A time where it mattered which show, in which time period, and what it was competing against. So I was always fascinated by the strategy of scheduling broadcast and network. That was always interesting to hear.
At the time did you expect yourself to be here, doing what you’re doing now?
I thought I would have stayed on the network side. Because I basically started my TV career at NBC so I always loved the network side. And then it wasn’t until I started working on the studio side that I realized this is actually better because I get to be closer to the creative. So I always pictured myself doing something in television. But if you had asked me back then I wouldn’t have said I was going to a studio.
What is a favorite memory from your career so far?
I tend to remember the shows as memories. Some of the favorite things I’ve worked on — I remember working on Ed, which was a light drama with a bowling alley lawyer. That was probably the first show I ever covered as a current executive. It was just a great experience, a great show with really smart people involved.
I worked on The Office during the first couple of seasons. That was one of my favorite memories, when we first launched that on iTunes. And working with Greg Daniels, that was like the gift of my career. Working on Will and Grace and going to those run-throughs and seeing Jimmy Burrows work with the actors. I couldn’t believe I was actually getting paid to watch this happen. It was incredible.
And then here I’d say helping to develop Fresh Off the Boat and New Girl. Those are particularly exciting memories in my career.
What about those two in particular was exciting?
For Fresh Off the Boat – it was really important to me to promote more diversity. When I read that book, it’s very specific to a certain culture but also very universal. Everyone has a father that embarrasses you. Everyone feels like an outcast in school. Everyone has parents that make you some sort of weird food. So that’s what was appealing to me. It was very specific and represented an under-represented group of people, but yet, I felt connected to them because it was so universal. So that was really exciting.
And then with New Girl, I just love the tone of Liz Meriwether’s writing. I think she has such a specific voice. It’s smart, but silly at the same time. And that show just brought me so much joy because personally as a viewer it’s exactly what I want to be watching.
What do you see as your biggest challenge as President of 20th Century Fox Television?
It’s really exciting primarily because now we have all these platforms in house, and there are so many places for good ideas to go. The worst is when you’re working with a writer, and it’s their passion idea and you’re sitting there thinking “I don’t know where we’re going to sell this.” or “Who’s going to program this?” And now I’m really hard pressed to have someone on my couch pitching an idea where I think “I don’t have a home for this.” That’s great.
But I think with all that opportunity, the challenge for us is to make sure that the talent feels protected. Now we’re part of this big corporate structure, with a lot of opportunity, that can be really overwhelming to someone who’s just an individual person with a voice. So the challenge I find is, how do we take our talent and curate experience for them? Introduce them to all the buyers, really work on their idea, figure out the right home and make sure they have a personal experience. We have to be guides through the process in a bigger way. That’s the challenge. We don’t want anyone to feel like they’re getting lost or overwhelmed by all the opportunity. We have to protect the talent.
How do you keep yourself from getting overwhelmed?
I have always been a person who likes volume and who likes different kinds of stories. I’m just as happy reading a multi-cam as I am reading an American Horror Story script, so you just have to be smart. You have to know what the priorities are for each one of these platforms. Do I have enough to cover each one of them? And we just have to be organized. I have a great team that really works their butts off and finds great new voices and cares about delivering hits to all these different networks. I just protect myself by having good people around me, because I can’t do it alone.
When you were promoted to EVP Current Programming, Jonathan Davis was quoted as saying: “Keeping our current shows healthy and thriving is the lifeblood of a studio, and her role is one that combines sharp creative skills, talent relations, and sound financial judgement. She accomplishes all of it with incredible competence and a sense of humor that everyone appreciates, me most of all.”
I want to talk about some of these points he makes about you in reference to being a studio executive: How can studio execs continue to sharpen their creative skills?
I think you should know what is out in the marketplace, you should be reading and watching things and always looking for new talent.
For my execs, one thing is always remembering what the show was setting out to achieve. What was its main message? And you can’t give a million notes. You have to give like three notes and figure out what’s most important. For example, with the Creative Execs on Empire, anytime we might lose our way on an episode we always go back to “Music, Family, Power.” It was on the poster from the get go.
It’s so easy to get bogged down — “here’s the story, and we’re in this part of the outline, and we’re going to do it again for 22 episodes.” Sometimes you need to take a step back and get other points of view from people in the building too. And then figure out what are the two most important headlines, and how do I deliver that to a creative and help their vision come through.
In terms of building your creative skill, it’s just having your 10,000 hours. Part of your ability to evaluate creative material is innate, and then part of it is earned by reading a ton of scripts and developing your tastes, knowing what’s good and what’s not so good, and just doing it over and over again. Going to table reads and listening to what you think is working and what’s not working. Work on a drama and have that challenge your idea of how you tell a story, so when you go back to a comedy script you’re thinking about things differently.
What is the hardest part of talent relations and how do you navigate the creative and ego (not necessarily the negative connotation) involved?
I operate from a place of honesty. I’m a little more maternally focused, not just because I’m a mom, but I’m the youngest of four kids. So I’ve always been the peacekeeper. I’ve always wanted to figure out the way to fix the battles of my older siblings. So the way I think I approach it is, How can I be honest? What does each person want to achieve here? What does the artist want to achieve? What does the network want to achieve? How is there a way to make both of them happy?
I think you just have to understand that these writers are putting themselves on the line. They’re telling really personal things and working this out and you have to be respectful of them as people and artists. And then, with the network, just trying to be a translator. This is what we’re trying to do to achieve the best product. How do we meet in the middle? We both want the same thing at the end of the day, which is success. So you’re just trying to build those bridges.
How do you manage the level of pressure that there must be at your level?
We get to work in TV. Even when it gets stressful, we’re still lucky. The people I work with, they love TV. We love to gossip about our favorite story lines. So we have a lot of fun. We’re always tossing around ideas and kind of making fun of each other. I’m probably a more reserved person, but I understand you can’t take it so seriously. You have to have fun to create all this.
I’ve always worked more in comedy than in drama. I just love comedy writing and comedy writers. I like being in that fun and funny environment.
What is it about comedy in particular that you gravitated towards?
I think it’s that I grew up watching a ton of comedies. I would come home from school and me and my sister would watch everything that was on. I think it was WGN. We would watch Good Times, and Facts of Life, and Brady Bunch. I just basically sat in front of a TV for three hours a day. I loved that growing up. It’s a fun little world you’re in, where the story wraps up. That feels very satisfying. So I think I adopted that early on. And then my parents are both funny people. So that was how you got attention in the house, by being clever and witty. So I think I was always attracted to that.
Upon the Disney acquisition of Fox, Dana Walden, the Chairman of Disney Television Studios and ABC Entertainment, put out a memo in which she referenced Emmy- and Golden Globe- winner Modern Family, which you oversee, as an example of the extraordinary work that resulted “when we joined forces. That happened when we were completely separate companies – just think about how much we can achieve now that we are united.”
Now that everyone’s under one proverbial roof how does that strengthen what you all can do in your individual silos?
There’s a lot of transparency, because we’re all members of the same team and we report to the same people. So I can just have a conversation with Hulu and it’s like talking to your cousin. You want each other to succeed. You can be open about it, and there’s no throwing blame at a distant company. They’re related to you, so it’s a very open line of communication of, What do you guys need? What are you looking for? Who is the talent you’re working with that made you excited? Here’s what we have that we’re working on, do you think it might be right for you? There’s such an easy back-and-forth.
So I think in terms of what we can achieve together, we’re trying to make it as easy and talent-friendly as possible. So that our writers, that have those good ideas, we can send them directly to Hulu because we know that’s what they want. We’ve pre-pitched the arena to Hulu and we know they’re interested.
There’s more direct access. And then if there’s anything weird, we try to work it out together, because there’s someone who is above us, who’s the boss who can help mediate it. Again we’re reporting to the same people.
I think also, we’ve been charged with the idea that having success here at 20th TV is not just about the financial success of individual shows, it’s changing our outlook to realize that our success is going to be measured by if we helped the brands of the Walt Disney Company. So did I help create something that made people want to tune into ABC? Did I create something for Freeform that my mom, who is 80 and doesn’t know what Freeform is, but now she knows that it’s a cable network because it has a shiny show on it? What did I do to bring more subscribers to Disney+? So it’s a different mindset. Again it’s more creative, it’s creating content that makes people dying to come to our brands. That’s what’s at the forefront and it’s a great position to be in.
In general what we can achieve together is that there’s transparency and demand from these outlets, and we’re all focused on this idea that Bob Iger is a big proponent of, which is quality over quantity. And stopping to do things really wonderfully, not just pretty good. So if that means I’m going to work with a director at ABC Studios on my project because together that’s better, we’ll do that. It’s much more team-oriented.
Our tool chest is bigger, to make things better. And then we have more outlets so we’re not conforming an idea to be more “Oh an ABC show at 9PM”, it’s more like “Oh no, that’s a Hulu show and we’re going to let it be a Hulu show.”
Going back in time a bit, you started your career as a current exec at NBC where you worked on series such as Will & Grace, The Office, Las Vegas and Ed, as well as serving as a comedy development executive at ABC Studios. How did you get started on the executive track and do you have any advice for the young up-and-comers looking to be where you’re at in 20 years?
I moved out here with a friend of mine from college, a writer named Colleen McGuinness who’s writing Amy Schumer’s show for Hulu right now. She and I got an apartment on Kings Road and we got a fax machine, because it was the days of fax machines. And we faxed our resumes to the UTA job lists and I got a job as an assistant in business affairs at CBS syndication. I worked for a great guy named Jon Hookstratten and quickly after that I went to NBC, where I was an assistant to the Head of Current Series.
I sat right next to Karey Burke’s office, which was so funny working together again. And I think what got me promoted was that I read every script I could. I would take home 20 scripts on the weekends of what execs didn’t want to read. I would read all the staff writers and I’d say, “Ok, these are the three to focus on. Don’t worry about these.” So I made my bosses’ lives easier, which I think is something you need to think about. It’s not just about you and how you get ahead, it’s how are you making your bosses’ lives easier? I just showed initiative. I would send notes on things that I thought. Ideas. I was proving I could be an executive, but I was making sure at the same time that I was still the best assistant that I could be. Because I think that’s a terrible thing, when an assistant lets the assistant stuff drop because they’re so eager to get ahead.
I was showing that I could do the work of a junior executive. I used to keep a log of everything I read and everything I watched. It stays with you. You grow with the writers and directors. So that was the start of my path.
What was it in you that prompted that initiative to go above and beyond?
I always LOVED reading. My brother taught me to read when I was little. When I was four years old he read The Hobbit with me over a summer. Painstakingly reading word by word. But he would sit there with me. And every time I open a script, I still enjoy cracking open that script. And I thank God for it, because I’d just be dead if I didn’t enjoy reading. So every night I’d go home with a stack of things to read, and now I’m reading articles and original specs. I just love storytelling and escaping into that imagination. So for me it was less of a chore than for some people. I was just really passionate about what I wanted to do.
Disney Television Studios president Craig Hunegs said that “Fox has been particularly effective at growing talent in-house across their shows and having them emerge as show creators and showrunners.” How have you and your team at 20th TV emboldened your talent to grow into those types of roles?
Not every writer/artist is right to run a company of hundreds of people with millions of dollars. There are two parts to that. We at 20th are good about identifying what we call “current all-stars” of people on shows that we think are fabulous. Like Josh Rabinowitz who was on the Carmichael show and then co-created REL, and now he’s writing a project for us for FX. So I want to keep growing someone like that. (Isaac) Aptaker and (Elizabeth) Berger were Dan Fogelman’s protégés. Chet Dave and our comedy development department sang their praises early on so we put them under a deal and now they’re running This is Us with Dan, and they have a ton in development. We’re seeing them grow.
Then there are people like Liz Meriwether who had a bunch of things here, then she went to New Girl, and now she produces Single Parents and Bless this Mess and is going to do The Dropout for Hulu. That’s the dream. To build someone that they feel like this is their home and we can help them grow through it. So that’s how we curate the in-house talent.
Then in terms of supporting them as showrunners, I have to say everyone in this company is passionate about TV. So even business affairs execs, they’re not doing it because they like finance, they’re doing it because they loved a TV show. Everyone in the different departments wants to support the creative product. So it’s like having a lot of really good babysitters. Our production team will help our showrunner. Publicity will come up for ideas with our showrunners. Every department is helping guide them. But it’s still hard.
Some people take to it naturally and some people have trouble, but that’s when we recognize we need a really strong non-writing producer, or we need a director-producer, or we need a Number 2 on the team so the writer can focus on this or that. It’s just knowing that it’s not a one size fits all, and kind of looking at the personality of that showrunner and their particular needs as well as what we have to achieve on that show. And then figure out how we give them resources so that they succeed.
What does it take to catch your eye in seeking new and upcoming storytellers to bring in under your umbrella?
You’re judging their writing, the strength of their creative material. I always look for not just an entertaining show, but what do you have to say? What is the question you’re trying to answer in yourself? What’s the message of the show? What’s the theme you’re looking to explore? I’m always attracted to something that comes in the door that has something bigger to explore and say. I think that’s really important.
People who are passionate. And I think especially for our system now, people who want to be prolific. We can have the auteurs who just want to make that one show, but I’m also interested in creators who are excited to have their broadcast show, and want to have a shot on Hulu and might want to dabble on Disney+ because their kids like it. I think that’s a new thing for us. People who are applicable to multiple brands is interesting right now.
Who’s an example of that?
Liz Heldens is someone. She came up on Friday Night Lights and last year she created The Passage for us on Fox. Typically we have a writers list that is more geared to supplying the Fox Network, but she can write soap and all these other things. So she wrote a spec this year called The Big Leap which is about dance and people having second chances in life. It’s fun and joyful and soapy, and we ended up selling it to Fox. But on top of that she has sold a show to Freeform and she’s working on a pitch for Hulu. So she can do a lot of different things, which is fun. There are a lot of people like that.
Nowadays everyone’s discussing the “Streaming Wars” and the future of OTT, often downplaying the strong production power of the studios like 20th TV – How is that an advantage to you and how do the studios fit into the “wars”?
I think Netflix is trying to produce most of their stuff in house, but Hulu and Disney+ will have a lot produced by us, Fox 21 and ABC Studios. We still have access to talent. We know how to make good shows. We know how to create multiple seasons of shows. And that’s all stuff that the streamers want. They may do business differently, but you still need experience in producing things and getting them to last. Streamers may go more straight-to-series, or take shots on edgier ideas, or different ideas, or limited series more than broadcast networks, but you’ve still got to produce them the old-fashioned way.
We’d be remiss if we didn’t discuss diversity, and Deadline said of you that “Beyond the day-to-day requirements of the job, she also is an advocate for industry initiatives such as greater inclusion, increasing the representation of diverse and female writers and directors on 20th series.” From a studio perspective how are these diversity initiatives in storytelling helping the world, and what is 20th doing to foster that?
I think it’s similar to Fresh Off the Boat. When you find the common ground and a diverse story that’s similar to your story, it fosters an understanding and I hope that’s a good thing for social change. Amongst our deals, we have to hire the writers and directors and voices, and we have to be really proactive about it and aggressive about it. That’s why we have deals with Eva Longoria, Steven Canals, Lee Daniels, Jerrod Carmichael, and Randall Park. They’re all super talented and we’re lucky to be in business with them. You have to work at it.
I think our audiences are also diverse. So we’re dumb to not think about our full audience and what they want. So that’s another reason why I think it’s important.
As someone who loves developing projects, what do you wish more creatives understood about the development process?
I think things have changed a little bit. We used to say the network or studio ‘suits.’ I literally joke, I own A suit. We’re not that formal. I think too, there’s no secret agenda. Everyone wants to get a good show on the air. I think it’s just to understand that we all have the same end goal. We’re not trying to write the show for you. We’re not trying to do a show that you don’t want to do. We’re just trying to help you do the best version of what you want to do and help you get it through the system so it gets made and is protected along the way.
There are a lot of execs who come and go, but you’ve had great success over many years. What are some of the traits that make someone not just an effective executive, but one who can achieve longevity in the industry?
This is so obvious but being kind to people.
As I was growing up, my assistant group all got promoted together. So we all helped each other. So I think longevity is keeping your relationships, since: 1. it’s good for you as a person, and 2. it’s good for you and your job. You’re going to rely on those people. And you don’t want to screw people over. Not just because it’s not a good thing as a person, but also because it’s not smart.
You have to really like it. You have to be excited to get up every day and see what you can get made. What you can put into the conversation. Just being intellectually curious, reading and watching, wanting to continue to create. I feel like if that ever goes away I’m done, but until then I’m going to keep working.
Your Twitter bio is “mom. wife. tv exec. not much time for else.” In a world that is consumed with productivity, how do you take care of yourself so that you can operate at the level you need to?
I have a husband who is awesome, who helps a lot with our kids. And I like to work out, and I like to talk to my family. I have to say it’s been fun with my kids. They’re 3 and 6, so a lot of the things I enjoy doing with them are in a weird way, selfishly creatively re-invigorating. They love going to Disneyland and reading and stories and playtime. It’s funny, working for Disney now, they’ve given me a leg up on how they look at the world and the stories they’re interested in. I feel like I can speak pretty confidently about most Disney movies and character prototypes and shows from them. But really taking care of myself, I have a patient and good husband and I think that’s the key.
In your career you’ve been credited as shepherding ABC’s breakout hit Fresh Off the Boat and Fox’s The Grinder as well as developing the long-running hits New Girl and Last Man Standing – What were some of the early things you remember watching that helped develop your taste?
All those classic sitcoms from the 80s and 90s that I’d watch in repeats, I liked a lot of family comedies, such as Cosby, Step by Step, Family Matters. Then I’d get sucked into soaps. My mom would watch Dallas. I could watch with her but I couldn’t talk. We would watch Dynasty and Falcon Crest. Those were big for her. As I got older I loved the X-Files. So I was pinching myself when I got to work on the reboot. And I used to go to affiliate meetings with my dad.
All the other kids would go out to play and I was like, “No, I want to go watch the pilots.”
I used to LOVE SNL. That was a big influence in wanting to go into comedy.
And lastly, what are you watching right now that everyone should be watching and why?
There’s a show I love called Derry Girls on Netflix. It’s written by this woman I met recently named Lisa McGee, she’s an Irish creator and her show is about 4 or 5 girls growing up in Northern Ireland in the 90s. It’s just funny and raunchy and heartfelt and really well done. That show is probably a lesser-known thing.
I also really liked Working Moms on Netflix. I thought that was well done. I bristle at anybody that recommends something about working moms and then I watched it and thought “Ok, that’s pretty good.”
And then just a shoutout to our stuff – I really like Bless this Mess. It’s Liz and it’s just smart and funny. I’m always attached to “smart with heart” – if that was anything that’d be my brand. I’m not huge into dystopian thrillers. I like a little escapism.
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**Charlie Chappell is a current member of JHRTS. He is a producer and actor among many other trades who is equally at home on both sides of the camera and behind the microphone. You can see him working under the direction of Vincent D’Onofrio and across from Dane Dehaan and Ethan Hawke in The Kid, but his producing experience spans more than a decade of Los Angeles-based physical and post-production.
His latest venture into podcasting, Placing Faces, features interviews and conversations with some of the most influential Casting Directors in Hollywood and across the entertainment spectrum.
Charlie can be reached at verycharliechappell@gmail.com